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Identity HelpID help

25th May 2026 09:02 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP

04898390017796994873041.jpg

A friend found many samples like these in the area of Guarda, Portugal, and would like to know what he has in his hands. He sent the following information:

Analyses were carried out using two methods: X-ray fluorescence (XRF) and X-ray diffraction (XRD). There is a high content of titanium and barium. The main elements are titanium, calcium, barium and silica, with aluminum, vanadium, and sodium. It also contains manganese. Hardness 4.

Thank you very much.

 

Questions Answered
Can it scratch glass? : No
Can you scratch it with your fingernail? : No
Is it light/heavy for the size? : Normal

25th May 2026 14:31 UTCFranz Bernhard Expert

Are the colors +/- accurate, especially in the right pic?
Really looks like heterosite-purpurite, but really it isn´t.

25th May 2026 16:34 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP

07200950017797267418173.jpg

Franz Bernhard Expert  ✉️

Are the colors +/- accurate, especially in the right pic?
Yes, the photo on the right is definitely a bit oversaturated. I think this colour is closer to the real one.

25th May 2026 16:40 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP

06711610017796997801899.jpg
Oops! I inadvertently deleted the initial sample photo.

25th May 2026 15:22 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Rui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP  ✉️

high content of titanium and barium.
 These two elements show a strong overlap in X-ray spectra. Was that taken into account?

25th May 2026 16:44 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP

Uwe, I asked for an answer to your question. Thks

25th May 2026 17:26 UTCFranz Bernhard Expert

From XRD, only calcite and barite seem to be confirmed. Rutile and Quarz are only represented by one peak each, as far as I can see.
Color is intriguing, though!
Any background info?
Are there many small voids in the material?

25th May 2026 18:35 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP

I don’t have any specimens with me, but my friend says he does not observe any visible voids or porosity.

26th May 2026 04:17 UTCIan Nicastro

Guarda, Portugal is known for producing phosphosiderite. Based on the photos that would be my best guess, or possibly strengite... as there aren't a lot of options that are going to yield this intense color purple. Rui can you ask your friend what are those little dots on many of the samples are... your friend said they don't see voids... but those are either voids or small dark crystals of another mineral? I don't know much about XRD & XRF but I assume iron should be showing up in that graph? I assume siderite series minerals would look somewhat close to calcite with this assay?  

26th May 2026 04:24 UTCBen Grguric Expert

Firstly what was actually analysed by XRD? Did you carefully scrape some of the purple mineral off as a pure as possible mineral separate or did they just crush the entire sample, matrix and all?

26th May 2026 05:22 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP

Good morning everyone and thank you very much for your willingness to help with the identification.

There seems to be some inconsistency in the analyses carried out so far and questions are starting to arise that I cannot answer or simply do not know how to answer. Sometimes it is better to take a step back rather than continue further into the swamp.

I will try to obtain a few small samples and have analyses carried out outside Portugal. Here, it is not easy to access the necessary resources, even when paying for them. Which institution or organisation in Europe would you recommend for analysing this material?

Once I have something more concrete and greater certainty I will resume this discussion.

All the best

Rui

26th May 2026 05:25 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Joy Desor offers analytical services; we have been very happy with his work.

26th May 2026 07:55 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert OP

Thank you, Herwig.
 
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