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LocalitiesLower Merion Township, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, USA

5th Feb 2024 19:10 UTCKim A. Strange

05823250017071588027411.jpg
Hello mindat.  I recently acquired this specimen of saddle-shaped dolomite crystals with slightly amethystine quartz crystals on a limestone matrix.  The label (photo in replies) is a typed 3x5 card attributing this piece to a "Quarry northeast of Linden Hill, Pennsylvania" and notes it was "collected with James VanGundy family in the fall of 1967".  From my research, Linden Hill is/was a historic estate of the Campbell Soup family and the land appears to have been subsequently sub-divided.  It was located east of highway 23 roughly bordered by present day Monk Road on the north and Rose Glen Road/Mill Creek Road to the south.  I've reviewed mindat localities and Sloto's book.  Rose's quarry doesn't list quartz as a valid species; Gladden quarries only lists talc as a valid species.  Sloto notes there were numerous quarries that were lost due to construction of the Schuylkill Expressway but from what I can tell the expressway was completed prior to 1967 when this specimen was collected.  I'm hoping someone familiar with the local history (at least from 1967 to present) could share their thoughts on the likely locality where this was collected.  I have it labelled "Quarry NE of Linden Hill" for now.  Thanks so much.  

5th Feb 2024 19:10 UTCKim A. Strange

01073910017071602252375.jpg
typed label

5th Feb 2024 19:12 UTCKim A. Strange

01460700017071602599134.jpg
specimen side view

5th Feb 2024 20:59 UTCMark Heintzelman 🌟 Expert

Rons volumes are extremely well researched and about as complete a record as one could hope for.  If you can't glean the desired information from his records published in "The Mines and Minerals of Montgomery County, Pennsylvania", I'd more or less regard it as "lost to history". You at least have the index card record, and can label it as "unknown or unnamed quarry" at the provided locality.

5th Feb 2024 21:09 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Hi Kim, first question, what is the matrix? It looks like maybe a limestone or dolostone. These minerals commonly form in pockets in dolostone. If so, check the geology of the area you think this is from (an area known as Gladwyne) by turning on the macrostrat geology layer in the mindat map for the locality. I did this and the area is schist and ultramafic rock - not at all like your matrix. The label seems very specific, but all it really gives is a hill name in the vast state of Pennsylvania! Because the geology doesnt look like your matrix, then it is likely from a different Linden Hill. But assuming it is, if we across the Schulkyll River and go further NE we end up in terrane underlain by the Ledger Dolostone. It has big quarries in it, like the one north of Lafayette Hill.
Searching for "Linden Hill, PA" on the web I found a Linden Way in King of Prussia, and NE of it is a flooded quarry in the Ledger Dolostone again. I know "Linden Way" isn't a hill, but often road names get their inspiration from old topo or historic features - although no hill is marked there with a triangle on open street map. I ended up with some specimens from that quarry from a fellow here in Connecticut who is now close to 80 and lived near it decades ago. Because it was obviously a collectible place way back, it's another possibility.

5th Feb 2024 22:07 UTCKim A. Strange

Hi Harold.  Thanks for your analysis.  The matrix is a fine grained grey to tan limestone/dolostone - a photo of the reverse is shown in a subsequent post (I haven't done any chemical testing).  I didn't try the mindat macrostat view - I'll play with that a bit to see what you are seeing.  It didn't seem like too far a stretch to me that if the Rose's Quarry outside Gladwyn was known for carbonate minerals like dolomite and aragonite that the geologic environment must have supported carbonate rocks like limestone/dolostone.  And if it is known for silicates like enstatite and tremolite  that perhaps quartz was not that far a stretch even though quartz is not listed as a known mineral from Rose's quarry.  But then I'm not a geologist so my "reasoning" may easily get me in trouble...  

FYI, I may be attaching too much relevance to the Linden Hill reference - but it is a specific area outside Gladwyn (see https://montco.today/2022/03/linden-hill-gladwyne-5-parcels/).  I'm "assuming" the Linden Hill on the specimen label refers to the same Linden Hill Campbell Soup heir estate area.  If I'm wrong, then this specimen could be from just about anywhere.  I do appreciate your analysis and suggestion to look further north east.  If the Gladwyn area doesn't pan out, I guess this specimen may just have to be "locality uncertain" for the time being...  

Thanks again.   

5th Feb 2024 21:20 UTCWayne Corwin

Kim
A photo of the Back would help.

5th Feb 2024 21:44 UTCKim A. Strange

03317480017071692596258.jpg
Thanks Wayne - guess I was cutting corners by only supplying a side view.  Back is as shown - grey to tan fine grained limestone/dolostone.  I haven't done any chemical testing to confirm.  

5th Feb 2024 22:35 UTCWayne Corwin

That looks like a very quartz rich dolostone, even quartz crystals in the crack,
Very Cool specimen!

5th Feb 2024 22:28 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Dolostone will barely generate bubbles under acid, and is the more typically quarried rock for aggregate than limestone, if available. Dolomite crystals are more typical in a void in dolostone than in limestone. So I am betting this is a dolostone. Rose's quarry was in a serpentinite (shown as ultramafic on macrostrat) and is nothing like dolostone or the piece you show.  Because serpentinite is Mg rich metamorphic rock, dolomite can occur in it, but probably is mostly massive and not with quartz (very rare in serpenitinites) in vugs like this. So I would rule that place out. This is a nice find, so it deserves a locality. See if you can find any other Linden Hill in PA, I just did a quick look, and see where that takes you geologically.

9th Feb 2024 12:49 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

There is a website I commonly use called Historicaerials.com for researching old localities. The Bridgeport and King of Prussia area has had a very long history of stone quarrying so you might have some difficulty.  

The "Limestone Quarry" link that Harold provided I believe was called the Dekalb Quarry, according to this brief webpage provided by the King of Prussia Historical Society and is now a reservoir. https://www.kophistory.org/upper-merion-reservoir/

9th Feb 2024 17:29 UTCKim A. Strange

Thank you Jamison.  I appreciate you sharing another resource for researching historical localities - I was not familiar with Historicaerials.com.  That link does provide some interesting information and photos for that site.  One photo from 1966 notes it was taken from an observation platform in 1966 and that that "it" (the platform(?) and/or quarry(?)) was closed to the public at that time.  FYI, I've added that link to the mindat locality page for the "Limestone quarry".  

As an aside, assuming the map display orientation in mindat is correct (i.e. north at top), the quarry that Harold first identified and that you offered addition insight into (https://www.mindat.org/loc-250212.html) is located NW of the Linden Hill area that I identified.  Assuming I have the right "Linden Hill" that is referenced on the label and assuming the person who prepared the label had the right compass orientation (lots of assuming going on here), I have focused my attention more on the area immediately east of Gladwyn.   

Unraveling the possible localities of a specimen is always interesting.  As I am on the opposite coast of the US and have only been in Pennsylvania once in my life and then only for a couple of days, I appreciate those who are more familiar with an area than I and are willing to offer their thoughts.  Thanks again. 
 
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