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Mineralogical ClassificationEvidence of the anthropogenic origin of the "Carmel sapphire" with enigmatic super-reduced mine

20th Apr 2023 09:57 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/198DAC48230354F31E0BD7982D0125E8/S0026461X23000257a.pdf/evidence-of-the-anthropogenic-origin-of-the-carmel-sapphire-with-enigmatic-super-reduced-minerals.pdf

"In conclusion, our study of the "white breccia", osbornite and associated minerals allow to unambiguously conclude on the anthropogenic origin of CS ("Carmel sapphire"). Therefore, all new minerals previously described in CS should be discredited by the CNMNC-IMA as they do not meet the basic criterion of a mineral, which has a natural origin".

Refers to this locality:

https://www.mindat.org/loc-225961.html

Thus, some of the Mt Carmel material was not natural and polluted with anthropogenic material (waste product of the fused alumina process). Future discreditation seems probable for: carmeltazite, griffinite, magnéliite, mizraite-(Ce), sassite, toledoite, yeite, ziroite, ...

20th Apr 2023 10:14 UTCFrank K. Mazdab 🌟 Manager

very interesting!

Regarding griffinite, it's actually the dominant component of at least some of the Loch Scridain buchite-hosted "pseudobrookite" examples (see notes and composition table: https://www.rockptx.com/fkm-176-to-fkm-200/#FKM-189), so if griffinite from Mt. Carmel ends up getting discredited, hopefully someone will bring it back from the dead with a formal characterization of the Scottish material.

20th Apr 2023 11:58 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Ha! Surprise, surprise. I've been voicing suspicions for ten years already, ever since photos of big moissanite crystals appeared in a newspaper.

20th Apr 2023 12:26 UTCFrank K. Mazdab 🌟 Manager

I'm still wondering about that mysterious beach cobble from Turkey that has moissanite present as a rock-forming mineral... I think we have two localities (neither of which is actually really correct) that might represent the same find:

https://www.mindat.org/loc-39625.html

https://www.mindat.org/loc-343954.html

That it is a unique specimen, not found in outcrop, and not even given sufficiently precise locality information so that others could look for more, all makes it very suspicious (but I have to say, natural or anthropogenic, it still looks like it would make a great thin section)!

Perhaps next on tap for closer scrutiny... the dellagiustaite locality in Argentina... ???

(full disclosure... I've contributed content to this latter locality, but I still don't know what to make of it).

20th Apr 2023 12:10 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I am SO SHOCKED! (not)

Next you'll be saying that Potassium Permanganate from Egypt is not natural!

20th Apr 2023 12:31 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Many years ago I suggested that the IMA should allow a public comment period between submission of a new mineral and the final vote for approval, so that people with knowledge of the locality or other information about the substance could give warning to the Committee if something seemed unlikely. This idea was ridiculed as being "unscientific" to let just any Tom, Dick and Harry make comments about issues in the restricted purview of scientists, but there are several instances where it could have saved the IMA from embarrassment, going back all the way to texasite in the 1970s.

20th Apr 2023 12:35 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Exactly.

Also proposed names need to be debated before acceptance in order that issues the IMA might not have noticed can be picked up. Maybe we'd have avoided the mess of adanite and cyprine in this case.

2nd May 2023 21:18 UTCHercule Shen Expert

It's somehow a sad news, somehow, such materials waste a lot of time of Dr. Ma Chi, also waste a lot of time that folks who are writting the description. Carmeltazite really impressed me a lot, not because of it's pretty special, as I know it's approved from BBC and Forbes which almost never concern about mineralogy, and a lot of media wants to let people believe that

Carmeltazite is a new gem, or a transparent sapphire. The most impressed part is "the Carmel Sapphire™ is a unique discovery because it was discovered by Shefa Yamim in the soil of the Holy Land" said by the company.

I am still keeping an eye on exciting natural KMnO4, mainly curious on how natural it is, maybe thunder just keeping hit there for years and years.

4th May 2023 20:44 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

Well, this shows the characteristic feature of science, geology included: nothing is for sure... And the nature kinda hates 0-1 situations. But, as human beings, we do mistakes and this is what actually makes us humans...

7th May 2023 12:33 UTCFranz Bernhard Expert

Probably I missed something, but how did this stuff ended up there, where it was found? Is there any fused alumina factory around?
Franz Bernhard

2nd Feb 2024 16:30 UTCLuca Bindi

Hope you find some time and read this:

W.L. Griffin, L. Bindi, F. Cámara, C. Ma, S.E.M. Gain, M. Saunders, O. Alard, J.-X. Huang, J. Shaw, C. Meredith, V. Toledo, S.Y. O’Reilly (2024) Interactions of magmas and highly reduced fluids during intraplate volcanism, Mt Carmel, Israel: Implications for mantle redox states and global carbon cycles. Gondwana Research, 128, 14-54.

where we present U-Pb dating on super-reduced phase indicating preihistoric ages.

3rd Feb 2024 12:29 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Many thanks for the reference, Luca, and welcome to mindat!

4th Feb 2024 12:07 UTCEvgeny Galuskin

Data on the absolute age of Carmel corundum obtained on small crystals of carmeltazite are very doubtful. The results of a mineralogical study of Carmel corundum from white breccia, represented by waste of the electrocorundum production, indicate its anthropogenic origin.

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