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Identity HelpNative platinum ore nugget?
12th Dec 2016 16:39 UTCAurum Williamson
I need your help on this head scratchier. I purchased this specimen a couple days ago and I knew there was a question that had to be addressed. Maybe someone who is familiar with the geology of the Kondar Massif region could weigh in on this. Sold as native platinum in ore from Kondar Massif. It weighs 75.5 grams and is 4 cm x 3 cm x 3 cm. Heavy for its size.
My question was “is this a slag specimen?” I checked the metallic areas and they “are” platinum. When I saw the pockets in the matrix I thought they looked like the air pockets in slag. I’ve visited many old gold mines in central North Carolina and I’ve seen a lot of slag. When I looked close at the holes, they looked like something spherical had decayed out. I found a couple that haven’t totally rotted out. You can see platinum in the bottom of one hole. The matrix, under magnification looks like a fine grain iron and quartz. I see no evidence of melting of the material.
Has anyone seen another specimen like this? I think it’s real. A native platinum ore specimen that is water worn. Or I’m just nuts which happens on occasions.
Thanks for you help,
Keith
12th Dec 2016 18:28 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager
Secondly, the sample don't similar to platinum nuggets from Konder by colour and outer appearance (cf. http://webmineral.ru/deposits/gallery.php?id=2936&filter=21140 ). Note dark, grey colour of this metal. Your sample is much more bright white, similar to aluminium or silver.
Thirdly, large isoferroplatinum masses grow at Konder in chromite nodules or into chlorite pockets (in case of well known crystals). Your matrix is more similar to slag glass with air bubbles.
In other words, you has apparently manmade metal clod from waterworn slag.
You should to try to determine specific gravity of your sample (I am suppose it will be about 10 g/cm3 - what is good for silver). For isoferroplatinum it is 16.5 g/cm3. Or try to obtain direct compositional data.
12th Dec 2016 18:44 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert
12th Dec 2016 21:00 UTCBen Grguric Expert
12th Dec 2016 21:20 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager
Besides that ferrochrome specific gravity is far under 10 g/cm3.
12th Dec 2016 22:01 UTCAurum Williamson
13th Dec 2016 22:42 UTCKen Doxsee
17th Dec 2016 13:19 UTCAurum Williamson
Here is the response from the seller when I requested to return the specimen.
“"Hello Sorry to hear you dont like the piece. I do have a problem with some things though. One is im not sure who got slag stuck in your head but this is not slag. Slag is a mixture of slop metals combined. Thereis no possible way almost pure platinum can be sticking out all over the specimen. It would be melted in and be in the mixture of junk or muck. So who ever told you this is full of it. Second is the fact you didnt take it to a professional you asked someone on a forum on line. You dont know this guy and I dont know the guy. For all I know he isnt a geologist he may be a used car salesman from Detroit. If you were to do a search on the net type in platinum nugget and or platinum ore. You will then see that 95% of all bigger platinum nuggets are chock full of holes or as we say air bubbles. This is caused by the epithermal reaction when it surfaces and mixes with water or ice ( more common in Russia ) it then becomes steam and yes it leaves air bubbles. I am adding some pictures to show how a lot of the platinum in Russia looks like. Almost always coupled with other metallics so as there is almost always rust and completely covered in holes. Just know it is impossible for the platinum NOT to be melted and mixed in if it were any kind of slag. Remember mother nature has no blue prints and every specimen is and can be totally different even when found in the exact same location. So im not sure who filled your head with the slag info but its quite impossible. Look up pictures of slag it just dont look anything like this. Im sorry they are wrong. Look at the pictures and info because that should show how little this person who identified the specimen to be slag knows.”
Does anyone else have an opinion? I have to add the metal “is” more dull steel like. I took my poor quality pictures in bright light.
Thanks for your help,
Keith
17th Dec 2016 16:07 UTCReiner Mielke Expert
17th Dec 2016 18:11 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
Jolyon
17th Dec 2016 19:02 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert
I am not aware the price you paid, but if the auction had the weight of the piece you could have seen the price of platinum, the weight of your piece and put 2 n 2 together.
Sorry you found a bad seller on ebay, but they are there. A little searching on platinum would have likely prevented this.
17th Dec 2016 20:10 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager
I'm sorry it appears you may have been taken by an illegitimate seller on ebay (like that's never happened before), but I believe ebay has buyer protection so you should be able to get a refund on this even if the seller is being difficult......
17th Dec 2016 21:28 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
Tell the seller that you believe this item is fraudulently listed as a natural 'platinum nugget' and you wish to return the item for a refund.
Remind the seller that if they refuse to take the item back at this point you will get a professional and independent analysis through a mineralogical museum (we can help arrange this) and at this point if the item is proven fraudulent ebay & paypal will certainly refund your money regardless.
One route can lead to good feedback for handling the situation well. The other will not.
20th Dec 2016 00:31 UTCAlexander Ringel
Second is the fact you didnt take it to a professional you asked someone on a forum on line.
I doubted several specimen of several sellers and most of the sellers who were definitly wrong asked me if im a professor and wanted to finish off the conversation with this. So whenever someone replies a doubt with asking about you being a professor you have the reason to be very very doubtful.
My two favorites where a hexagonal quartz X on hematite from great britain sold as spinel from burma and some kind of carbonatic precipation with growth rings sold as fulgurite from arizona, both sold by people, who actually should have known better and had actually a quite good reputation. But still they put the professor card on the table and continued to sell their bullshit.
20th Dec 2016 00:42 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
20th Dec 2016 06:59 UTCTim Jokela Jr
People still buy platinum nuggets on ebay???
The seller's explanation is horsepuckey.
20th Dec 2016 12:26 UTCAurum Williamson
I did a Hail Mary on this specimen, but I’m getting my money back. To make some extra cash I scan the web looking for specimens mislabeled or way under priced and flip it. I mainly look for gold in quartz specimen that is heavy for its size. I can make from a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars in profit from others mistakes. About 90% of purchases I make are good. I hate to say it but I use ebay because of the money back guarantee.
Keith
20th Dec 2016 21:31 UTCScott Rider
I would advise only purchasing specimens that are obviously what the seller claims them to be... Ie. quartz, fluorite, topaz, calcite, etc. When you are online and deal with alloys, metals, gems, etc you run the risk it being faked. On Ebay there are a lot of fakes and fruds when it comes to gemstones and "nuggets." I purchased a "real" sherry topaz that ended up being a faceted Quartz with limonite staining and the dealer used some photography tricks to make it more sherry/pink in color. I got it and it was straight up yellow.... Paid almost nothing for it so it was more a test than anything. I sometimes test dealers when I try to acquire stuff.
My advice is to contact eBay if the seller won't refund it.. Did the seller have a refund policy?
21st Dec 2016 00:04 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager
I see situation at eBay from both sides. And able to explain, how their "protection service" works. They hasn't any insurance funds for indemnification of the parties. They simply arrests funds on seller's paypal account. If seller's account is empty - you'll receive noting. All is very simple.
They don't need in any explanations for this - a seller is always guilty. If in seller's policy is written, that returns not accepted - this means nothing. Money at his paypal account will be arrested in any case and buyer will receive refunding.
For example one guy from Germany bought two my lots of certified ferroplatinum from Ethiopia one after another. Month later he decided to return both them. In my return policy is written "refunding after return sample in initial state". I received from him 20 mixed grains in one bag (instead of sent 11 and 11 in two bags) and without certificates. More intimate looking at these grains had shows, that he returned me another material - unanalyzed ferroplatinum from unknown source different in colour and shape from sent to him material. In other words, he took my analyzed grains and returned to me his own unknown grains.
Correspondence with eBay support service don't brought to me any succes - he obtain my grains and analytical data and was completely refunded, while I lose my money and obtained the pinch of his bullshit. Case is closed. This is the fifth case for three years.
I myself as buyer used eBay support service only once for this time - one guy from Canada sold me fake coin and didn't answered me at all during a month.
21st Dec 2016 02:12 UTCReiner Mielke Expert
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