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Improving Mindat.orgPossibly wrong locality

11th Aug 2009 16:40 UTCSebastian Möller Expert

Hello,

Looking at the Münstertal, Black Forest, Baden-Württemberg, Germany locality page, I also viewed the mineral photos from there. I suspect the photo with the Photo ID: 111230 is really from the Münstertal Valley. It looks like it's in fact from the nearby Schauinsland locality. The southern part of Schauinsland Mt. in fact belongs to the muncipity of Münstertal, as well as the village of Stohren at the southern slope. Near Stohren there were some veins famous for such yellowish green pyromorphite xls. Could be Fahrnacker Vein then, but also some other veins in that area, which do belong to the muncipities of Oberriedor the town of Freiburg. But: The Münstertal (Münster Valley) mining district in the strictest sense do not include these veins, they do belong to the Schauinsland mining district.

There is pyromorphite in the Valley, yes, but I've never seen any of that kind. Mostly micromineral specimen with mall green or greyish green xls can be found, bigger ones (greyish green needles or long prisms) have mostly been found at Riggenbach vein, but without the features this piece shows.

Regards,

Sebastian Möller

11th Aug 2009 21:07 UTCRoger Lang Manager

I agree with Sebastian, looks like a Schauinsland speicmen (Willnau?)

cheers

Roger

11th Aug 2009 21:30 UTCRock Currier Expert

Sebastian,

I am one of the managers on mindat and I have no idea if your observations are correct one way or another. However you certainly sound like you know what you are talking about and your comment I think is typical of many that are presented here in the Mistakes and Errors forum and something should be done with them. You are probably correct, but there is really no mechanism for effectively dealing with such situations. Ideally you ore one of the managers who already have so much on their plates, should contact the person who uploaded the image and express your concerns and see what he/she says. Sometimes we will send out complaint letters if we feel there is a very high probability that a mistake has been made. The results of such an inquiries are varied. Here are some of the things that will result.

1. The person will not respond at all.

2. If we are real lucky the person will say something like, "Yes, I can understand your concerns, but I collected the specimen myself and can guarantee that the locality is correct.

3. Also if we are lucky the person will say something like, "Yes, you are correct, I made a mistake in copying the label and Ill change the locality." and does so.

4. The most common result other than not responding at all is that the person will say something like, that was what was on the label, or that was where I was told it was from.

In the first and last case we are left with at least some doubt and then a judgment call must be made as to if there is enough certainty to change the caption on the image. In this case I don't know and I don't know nor do I know if even you know enough to warrant a change in the locality. So lets say even you are not 100% certain. Does this mean your observations should be ignored? I don't think so. So what should we do.

I would propose that a button be added to the mindat.org/photo page called something like "User comments" where level one users and above could click on it and add just such comments as yours and read the comments of others.

Comments please.

11th Aug 2009 21:32 UTCRock Currier Expert

OK two knowledgeable people think the locality is wrong. Why don't one of you contact fabreminerals and see what he says.

12th Aug 2009 04:00 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I like the idea of a comments button on photos

12th Aug 2009 08:27 UTCRoger Lang Manager

Hi all,

i sent a mail to Jordi, maybe he can solve this,

cheers

Roger

P.S. the comment button would be a cool thing

12th Aug 2009 09:18 UTCSebastian Möller Expert

Hello,

Thanks for the comments.

I think the button will be a great idea.

I do have two specimen from Fahrnacker vein at Stohren (muncipity of Münstertal). The xls look like the one at the photo. This is the most likely locality so far, as it historically belonged to the muncipity of Münstertal and the other vein in question (the Willnau vein, Schauinsland) has usually produced more elongated prisms.

Regards,

Sebastian Möller

12th Aug 2009 17:56 UTCRoger Lang Manager

Hi all,

Jordi just answered, please read:

"Hi Roger,

Please see this: http://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?t=694

All the best,

Jordi"

... certainly a good idea to put this also to the mineral forum maybe to increase incoming opinions ;) etc.

let´s see what comes out. I agree Sebastian that Willnau had mostly elongated but i also have seen specs like the pictured one said to be from there (and those were collected in the early 1980s by a fellow collector AFAIR),

cheers

Roger

12th Aug 2009 23:36 UTCGerhard Niklasch Expert

If mindat's Münstertal locality page is meant to refer to the `Revier' (mining district) of this name, rather than to the wider geographical interpretation as the whole valley -- and looking at how the Schwarzwald (Black Forest) is carved up, this does seem to be the intended interpretation -- then maybe it'd help to minimize future confusion if the page said so explicitly?

Just a thought...

13th Aug 2009 09:16 UTCSebastian Möller Expert

Hello,

As I'm doing a lot of research at the moment for an upcoming trip to that area, I've read some articles on Münstertal. As pointed out in the last posts, the geographical and historical sense of Münstertal does include the southern part of Schainsland Mt. with Stohren and Willnau. If you take the veins and their paragenesis, the Fahrnacker and Willnau veins do belong to the Schauinsland orefield rather than the Münstertal area.

Maybe we could make the following addition to the location: possibly from Southern part of Schauinsland Mt., historically belonging to Münstertal Valley.

The only locations so far I can consider in Münstertal valley are the Riggenbach or the Herrenwald vein, but specimen from there, so far as I've seen do have greyish green elongated xls, often being rounded (like grains of rice).

Regards,

Sebastian Möller

16th Aug 2009 16:53 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Comment added to photo caption.

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