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Fakes & FraudsTrying to figure out if I have a fake
11th Aug 2012 06:17 UTCAnonymous User
I can't find a description of how the titanium coating is put on quartz for this type of piece. The seller told me that their process doesn't cover the back, and I argued enough to get a refund. Not too surprisingly, the piece comes out of China, which only heightens my suspicions, as I know the titanium coating is an American innovation.
I want to know mostly because I'd like to be able to use this piece and label it accurately when I go to sell it. If pictures would help, I can upload them. I know there's a difference between the two that is visible with a loupe, but I don't own a loupe yet.
Thanks,
Kali
11th Aug 2012 06:49 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert
11th Aug 2012 10:29 UTCRock Currier Expert
12th Aug 2012 09:44 UTCAnonymous User
12th Aug 2012 09:51 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
I'm not sure what the problem is. You know it's a fake and the "titanium" coating is man-made. What you seem to be suggesting is that the coating wasn't done well enough - if that's the case just send it back.
To label it properly, you need to disclose that it has been artificially treated to give a metallic sheen.
Never did see the point of these "genetically modified" quartzes and agates myself. There's enough beauty in the natural mineral world without having to fake it.
12th Aug 2012 11:30 UTCOwen Lewis
12th Aug 2012 23:55 UTCBarry Miller
13th Aug 2012 18:24 UTCAnonymous User
15th Aug 2012 06:01 UTCAnonymous User
I know what I have is a chunk of probably agate that has a druzy pocket in it, which is coated with something. There's a chance it's quartz, but with that milky color, I think it's safe enough to go a touch more specific and say agate. It's not really my thing normally, but I saw it and had an idea about what kind of setting would suit the shape of the stone and the druzy.
What I don't know is if that coating is titanium (or another metal) or paint. I have a loupe on the way, and it looks like I might be able to tell if it's paint using the loupe if it's good, but I won't have it for several weeks. In the meantime, I want to start work on this piece, and I just want to be accurate and truthful in how I describe it when I put it up for sale. This question is mostly about protecting my integrity as an artist.
I have photos now to attach - I wasn't back sooner because we just got home from a trip when I posted originally, and it took me a bit to figure out where my camera was put. Anyhow, here are the pictures:
The first one is from the top - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k603/Songblaze/Jewelry%20and%20gemstones/DSC00119.jpg
Then, from the side - trying to show the demarcation between the colored and uncolored area - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k603/Songblaze/Jewelry%20and%20gemstones/DSC00120.jpg
And last, the back - http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k603/Songblaze/Jewelry%20and%20gemstones/DSC00121.jpg
Anyhow, if anyone can tell if I'm dealing with a painted imposter or a "real" titanium coated druzy stone, I'd appreciate it.
~Blaze
15th Aug 2012 10:04 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
15th Aug 2012 17:14 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert
17th Aug 2012 05:24 UTCAnonymous User
17th Aug 2012 17:44 UTCTim Jokela Jr
The beauty and variety of nature's bounty is endless, but it's never enough, is it?
I swear, the older I get, the weirder this world gets.
17th Aug 2012 20:25 UTCJim Houran
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dammit, I hate buying painted stuff when I'm
> trying to buy coated stuff.
>
> The beauty and variety of nature's bounty is
> endless, but it's never enough, is it?
>
> I swear, the older I get, the weirder this world
> gets.
Kali,
Please disregard insensitive and flippant remarks like these. This type of disrespectful attitude reflects poorly on Mindat and the hobby in general, but thankfully the hobby is filled in its majority by helpful and respectful people who offer assistance, support and education to fellow hobbyists.
I'm glad your question was answered adequately. Mindat is about education, not ridicule.
Cheers,
Jim
17th Aug 2012 21:37 UTCRock Currier Expert
I sympathies with you. We even sell some of these items. We even have some of them made from agate "cabs" with drusy quartz. I originally stayed away from them, but customers kept asking for them. We say exactly what they are but they eventually find their way to ebay and described in all kinds of ridiculous ways. After buying and selling a few zeolites from India that had been "painted/tinted" at the begging of one of our good old time suppliers, we finally drew the line and said no more of that kind of stuff. It causes too much confusion and hard feelings down the line.
It seems that humans are never satisfied with things the way they are. We are always diddling around trying to make things better especially if we can get paid for it. We all trim specimens, washing and cleaning them in different ways. Others putting silicon spray on them and filling in cracks with plastic and a lot of other things. Where you draw the line is pretty much up to the individual. Ladies use make up and there is even make up for guys now. Its depressing, but that's the way things are. We can try and change them, but you can make yourself crazy if you chase it too far.
18th Aug 2012 08:32 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert
18th Aug 2012 10:08 UTCRock Currier Expert
18th Aug 2012 15:01 UTCJim Houran
I would hope you wouldn't "sympathize" with anyone who ridicules people on this site (or anywhere for that matter). Having personal opinions is fine, but expressing them in a manner that disrespects others should be immediately confronted here.
What culture and values does Mindat stand for I wonder?
Cheers,
Jim
18th Aug 2012 15:21 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
Cheers,
Alfredo
18th Aug 2012 16:04 UTCAJMI
18th Aug 2012 16:16 UTCReiner Mielke Expert
18th Aug 2012 19:37 UTCDon Saathoff Expert
Don
19th Aug 2012 14:51 UTCJim Houran
Cheers,
Jim
19th Aug 2012 15:34 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert
19th Aug 2012 16:10 UTCAJMI
I don't find attempts to stifle the free speech rights of other people to be appropriate... no matter where it happens or by whom.
Regardless, it's not up to you or I to determine what is and what isn't appropriate speech here in the forums - that's the job of the Mindat Administrators.
So how about we let the Admins do the policing and instead the rest of us focus on more mineral-related topics. :-)
Kelly Nash,
If you're going to "get all mystical" in a forum whose focus is hard science, then you should probably expect the skeptics here to be particularly incredulous. ;-)
19th Aug 2012 18:11 UTCJim Houran
Sorry I didn't see your posts or the negativity that followed. Had I seen anyone ridicule you, I would've spoken up as well!
AJMI,
You don't seem to understand that Mindat doesn't have "anything goes free speech rights"...http://www.mindat.org/mesg-6-67689.html
You also seem to miss my point... people can hold personal opinions, but that doesn't give them to "right" to ridicule and mock on Mindat. I'm all for focusing on mineral-related topics, which is why I confronted this unacceptable behavior on a website that is supposed to stand for education, not personal ridicule directed at people asking legitimate questions.
When I see mocking behavior not being confronted by Mindat admin, then it should be the "job" of its membership to police bad behavior that reflects poorly on the culture of the site. Mindat is a community. And mocking others is not a discussion of "hard science, so when it happens you should probably expect the skeptics here to be particularly incredulous :)
Cheers,
Jim
19th Aug 2012 20:04 UTCAJMI
Jolyon, creator of Mindat wrote:
"We have a few basic rules about the use of this site that I need to make clear again here:
2. No offensive, abusive, rude or overly-confrontational behaviour."
Enough said.
22nd Aug 2012 05:27 UTCAnonymous User
Look, guys, this sort of thing isn't my taste either. I prefer a good piece of lapis or malachite, and I've got a particular soft spot for pale blue sapphires, and lately I've been doing a lot of low-end labradorite. I want a good finish on my stones, but I don't like dyed stones. I bought it to make a piece from because right now, this stuff sells. I suppose it doesn't bother me as much as the dyed stones because with these, there is no attempt to pass them as anything but altered stones. As an artist with a very limited budget, I often can't afford the stones I'd like to work with, and I need to make a return on what I make - better yet, generate some attention towards my work. If that means I have to use what is 'in', so be it. The buyer wants what the buyer wants, and my tastes being different from theirs won't change that.
I just wanted to be accurate about what I was using. People are going to expect better longevity out of a titanium-coated piece than a painted piece.
As things stand, because of the blank back and my nerves about whether this is titanium-coated or painted, I may just make it into a pendant to be a gift for my sister. She'd like this sort of thing. (In all seriousness, when buying gifts for her, I often look at things and go 'What here is the farthest from my tastes?')
~Kali
22nd Aug 2012 10:27 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
I'm glad my comments were not taken the wrong way.
I don't think that it's possible it could have been painted with anything to create the effect you see, but one possibility is that it has been coated in the normal way as aqua-aura quartz is, and then protected with a layer of lacquer or similar.
22nd Aug 2012 10:35 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
1. If you are interested in the rules of behaviour on mindat.org, please remember that we request contributors do not use pseudonyms and use full, real names on the site. This rule is not enforced for those who make infrequent contributions on the board, or those who have just come to ask a simple question. But for those who are regular contributors or who want to get involved in serious debates about how the mindat.org community behaves, it's essential.
If you make comments, you should stand behind them. Anonymous comments on the internet lead inevitably lead to bad behaviour.
2. You are confronting the comments made by Jim Houran. Your point is therefore invalid. Whether you think the comments made previously were disrespectul or not, Jim has every right to make the comments he did because he wants our community to be a more friendly and harmonious place.
Jolyon
22nd Aug 2012 12:24 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert
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